Welcome to the Miko Love Podcast. I'm your host, Kameeko Love. And when I'm not educating about personal finance as the budget mom, I'm here diving into the exploration of my own passions and exploring a range of captivating topics. It's time to dive into conversations that ignite curiosity and inspire. Welcome to another episode of the Miko Love Podcast. If you are new, then welcome. I am so glad you are here. Today, I have a very, very special guest and I am so excited to have her on because we're going to be talking about something that's become a major passion and hobby in my life. I would say probably for about not quite a year, but almost. And if you are into sourdough at all, you'll probably know her as sourdough explained on Instagram. Andra is amazing. And if you have even seen her Instagram, then you know what I'm talking about. She is on a mission to help people understand the sourdough product process and how to make sourdough at home. She also does an amazing one -on -one coaching as well as specific classes to help people learn how to make sourdough products at home. And I just got done, I'm actually filming this intro after we did the episode and just from listening to the episode. And I would say I'm a sourdough beginner. I am definitely not an expert at sourdough baking at all. I already learned so many amazing things just from doing this podcast with Andra. She is just a kind, sweet, giving soul. So short story, I started following Andra about, I would say maybe four or five months ago, really close to when I started my sourdough journey. And The reason I started sourdough in my life and I, after I had my second son, I started having a little bit of gut issues and I was talking to a friend about it and we were talking about like my love for carbs and for bread. She said, well, have you ever made sourdough? It's supposed to be easier to digest and that's all I needed to know. Like I immediately went out and started researching sourdough and just to be very short story, my journey started making my sourdough starter from scratch. Now the easiest way as you will hear in today's episode is to start sourdough is to get sourdough starter from somebody else and already established starter from somebody else in your life, whether it be a family or friend. I know I went down this huge, long discovery journey of in process of doing my sourdough starter from scratch. And after five weeks, I didn't think it was working. It didn't show any signs of activity. It was like not doing anything. And I wanted to make my very first sourdough loaf for the Super Bowl. I wanted to do a sourdough loaf with some dip. And as the time got closer and closer to the Super Bowl and my sourdough starter that I made from scratch was not showing any signs of activity, it got really scared. So I was like, what if it's not ready to make bread by the time the Super Bowl rolls around? So I went out and I bought a sourdough starter, dehydrated, already established starter from another Instagram account that I followed called Homestead and Chill. And I got that and hurt. mean, I was able to hydrate and get it back active again and I was able to make my sourdough starter for the Super Bowl. But that's how I started my sourdough journey. Now I currently bake. I think a lot. Yeah, I will say that I bake about 10 to 13 loaves a week. I gift a lot of most of them, all of them to friends, but I also make others. And if you follow me on Instagram, I make other sourdough goodies at home as well. Sourdough muffins. pancakes, pizza, crackers, pretty much any bread product I make with sourdough. I haven't bought an actual bread product from the store in many, many, many months. So this is where I am with sourdough. It is one of those things that I, one of these passions and hobbies, just like me making my own skincare products and how Pine Manor Naturals was brought about in my life, it's been one of the hobbies and things that's helped me in the grieving process with my mom. being able to focus my mind somewhere else so I'm not sitting in that pain and that hurt all the time. It allows me to put my passion of creativity into something like sourdough. So it's just been an honor to have Andra on the podcast and I hope you enjoy today's episode. So thank you so much for one coming on the podcast. I'm a huge fan of what you do on Instagram. In fact, it was you who I started following when I just got into my sourdough journey just not even a year ago. Right. So can you please tell me a little bit about your background and how you started your sourdough journey and why you started? Yeah, right. Well, it happened almost five years ago, actually. So it's a good way to celebrate that milestone. Yeah. Speaking to you today about my journey. A friend of mine gave me some of her sourdough starter and she gave me the starter and she gave me a printed recipe and the instructions. And then this is how it all started. I mean, I got home. It was a Friday. I said, okay, I'll give it a go. The first attempt was not what I was hoping for, to be honest, but actually that motivated me to have another attempt, give it another chance. So yeah, this is how it all started. My husband can't believe that I'm still making sourdough bread today. And he actually can't believe that I teach people how to make sourdough bread because I'm not a great cook. He does all the cooking and he never thought that actually something will, you know, get my attention for more than a couple of months, right? So. It happened. And one thing I tell everyone is actually if I could make this happen and I make amazing sourdough bread at home, I think everyone can because I'm not a talented cook. I'm not a fan of spending time in the kitchen, but somehow sourdough is different. It is. It's funny you say that because up until I would say about three or four years ago, I'm a horrible cook. I'm the type of mom that burns frozen pizza. But there's something about sourdough that allows you to have a creative outlet. Yes. It's almost like it's beyond just baking and cooking. It's almost like an art. Yes. Although if you call it art, some people might be afraid of getting into it. I think everyone can make bread at home and everyone was making sourdough bread like hundreds of years ago, right? Because they couldn't just go to the supermarket and grab some yeast from the shelves. So I think everyone was making it. The reality is that today we have this social pressure of delivering the perfect loaf and it puts a lot of pressure on us. thinking that we are not doing a great job, but actually we are doing a great job. Bread is bread in the end. It has to be nourishing and it has to have, you it has to look, if we want to look a loaf that looks nice, that looks perfect, that's a different game, I'd say. But in the end, we make bread to have something to put on our table and to feed our kids and families and to offer to our friends and to nourish our gut. but it's not something to be posted on social media, if you know what I mean. I mean, it's great that people are sharing their bakes, but on the other hand, we see these perfect loaves of bread. Sometimes they are not even perfect, but people think they are perfect. And that makes us, I don't know, feel demotivated or feel frustrated or feel however you want to call it, but that's not how things should be today. That's so true. That's so true because I do, I've kind of, so when I started making my sourdough, I was learning from people on Instagram. That's how I first started into this. And I started because a friend of mine told me after I had my second child, I began having some gut issues. And one of my friends told me, she goes, you should really try sourdough. I heard it's really easier to digest. And I'm a carb person, I love my breads. And so I said, okay, well, I'll look it up and see what the process entails. But as I started looking and finding all these people on Instagram, it's true, you see like these amazing hand painted sourdough loaves that are literally painted. Yeah, literally painted. With paint. Yeah, literally painted. Of like these floral murals and like these landscapes and these beautiful scoring and using all different types of flowers to make the scoring stand out. And I'm just like, how can I get mine to look like that? And so that's really the road I went down is how do I not only make good bread, I'm a very artistic person. And what gives me peace is having a creative outlet to use my hands. And so that's why I really gravitated toward, but it's true. We have to have that understanding that bread is bread. And just like you, you know what? Even the pretty loves go on my table to feed my family, the ugly loves go on my table to feed my family. At the end of the day, it's all stuff we can use to feed our family. And I feel that way with homesteading and gardening and all of that. It's really hard nowadays with social media with everything looking. So perfect. So I'm really glad that you mentioned that. Now we've seen a significant rise in sourdough baking over, I would say, the last couple of years, especially during COVID and the pandemic. What do you think has driven this upward trend that we're seeing and why has sourdough captured so many people's interest so much? Yeah, I think if we look back at COVID and lockdown. think the reasons were a bit different versus today. I mean, we were stuck at home and we didn't have much entertainment, right? So we couldn't go to meet our friends. We couldn't go out to restaurants. We couldn't do much, right? So we were stuck at home and we had to find something to keep us busy. And it was cooking, but it was also making bread. And I think the other reason was the supply. We know that we've had flour supply, also yeast supply. So even if you wanted to make bread, there was no yeast to buy. well, the other option was make your own sourdough starter and it would be an endless supply of wild yeast, right? And the other thing was more like of a challenge. You know, making the sourdough starter from scratch, you know, kept us busy and, you know, excited. And I was like, let's make a sourdough starter from scratch. That's my challenge. And then I want to be able to make a bread with it. So I think there are a couple of reasons during the pandemic and during the lockdown. But nowadays, I think it's more around well -being and health. And also, actually, many people do not have access to a sourdough loaf, right? Depending on where you live, you have the supermarket, but you can just buy, you know. we know what kind of bread actually you can get from the supermarket. So I'd rather not have bread than have that between the two of us and those, you know, the listeners. But so I think it's access, I think it's wellbeing. And I think it's also money, right? And the cost of buying great bread. The cost varies a lot. In the UK where I'm based, I think you pay a decent amount. money on a loaf, but I've heard that in the US things get very expensive. Even a loaf of bread can be extremely expensive. So cost is another cost for what you get actually, right? So if you want a great sourdough loaf, you'll be paying a lot of money where you can actually make that yourself. And of course, yeah, it's the ingredients, it's the electricity and it's your time. And we can talk more about that. But I think all in all, it's cheaper than buying bread in a bakery. Not, you know, yeah, not the bread that you can buy in a supermarket, but a sourdough loaf in a bakery. Yeah. I think that's really interesting. You said that. You said you would rather have no bread than bread found at a supermarket. And it's funny because I did not make sourdough one day and we were having tomato soup. I'm like, sourdough bread with tomato soup, that's a good combination. That's what I want to have. So I went to the supermarket to buy, you know, your normal grocery store to buy some sourdough bread. And I flip it over and I look at the ingredients. I counted 22 ingredients in one loaf of sourdough bread at the supermarket. got, well, geez, because that's funny, I only use three. Yeah. Salt, water, flour. Yeah. when I make my bread. So why does this need the 20 other different ingredients? It's preservatives, right? To keep it shelf stable. And so explain to me when you said I would have literally zero bread than the bread at the supermarket. Yeah. So explain why. Yeah, why? Is it yours also what's found in the bread? Yeah, I mean, it's indeed what goes in the bread. So it's the ingredients and how clean the ingredients are. And also I have the freedom and I have the, you know, I have the choice over the ingredients because even the flour that goes in the bread is important in the end, right? So that's the next, the next step. But I don't know which flour they are using, whether it's organic or not. whether it's unbleached or not, whether whatever. So I don't know where it's coming from. I have no clue. But then on top of that, it's a list of, you know, 10, 20 other ingredients, which I would not put in a loaf of bread I would make at home or in nothing else I would make at home, right? So why? I mean, why? And it's also the flavor of it. I just think that's a really powerful statement. I mean, Right. It goes to show like, like you said, our choice, we get to choose what ultimately we decide to put in our bodies. Yeah. And that's one of the things that I feel like happen. you know, sourdough, you said a lot of people is health reasons. Yeah. And I mean, like organic homesteading, you know, having chickens for your own eggs. All of this, I feel like I've seen such an increase in the last couple of years alone with having the choice of what we put in our bodies. And I think more and more people are starting to pay attention to that. What benefits beyond just the taste do you think sourdough baking offers? Besides just the health and ingredients and the taste, what are some other benefits? The reason I ask is because I know a lot of my listeners are gonna be like, it seems so complicated, it seems so time consuming. Why even do it? Yeah, I mean, we can get to how complicated it actually is and how time consuming it is because yes, when you read it all, you're like, my God, I spent 24 hours making it. But in reality, believe me, and you will know you don't spend more than what? 20, 25 minutes? Maybe. On average, maybe, maybe. Yeah. It depends on how involved you are in the process. But I think, I mean, there are definitely benefits. are... different types of benefits. So one is benefits and how it will impact your physical health, like literally your health. And we were talking about, you know, being conscious of what we put in our bodies, but it's also about increased digestibility and the process doing more for us, the slow, long fermentation, doing more for us. And then making digestibility, making everything much more digestible and easier to digest. And also making more nutrients and minerals available to our bodies and essentially fiber. But to be honest, it's not, it's not, and this is what I want to highlight because we talk about sourdough bread. Yes, making bread at home is great, but if we use, you know, just the plain flour that we can buy in Costco. Well, yes, there's lots of carbs in it, but there is very little fiber. So we also need to be very mindful of the flour that we use to make our bread with. So. Okay, interesting. You know, you can't get all the benefits, you know, it's like it's like any other ingredient, right? So you grow your tomato versus you go to the supermarket and buy one. And it's like anything else. Think of any other food that you put in your body. It's the same thing. You use plain flour, highly processed. There's not much left in it. So there's sugars, there's carbs, but that's it. If you start slowly combining it with whole grain flour, well, you also get the fiber and you get much more nutrients. So... I don't think it's fair, you know, I don't think there is a fair statement to say there's much more nutritional value in it just because it's sourdough, but we also need to be very conscious of the flour that we use to make our bread. What is your favorite flour to use for sourdough baking? Well, I have like 20 types of flour in my cupboard at the moment, but I have... I have a of combos that are my favorite. I think it's a definite, I would use bread flour. So here in the UK it's called strong white. So I would definitely use bread flour, but I would never use it on its own. So I would always combine it with something else like rye flour or just whole wheat or some of the more ancient grains. know Kamut is... popular in the US. So I would try to add, include more of these in my bread to make sure that I get more fiber rather than just carbs. Okay, interesting. That's really interesting to me because you know, I had since I started, I've always just used the King Arthur. Unbleached. The bread flour. Yes. And the funny thing is, is I have camout flour. in my pantry, I've just been so scared to use it in my recipe because I've never found a recipe that calls strictly for camout. And I've been too afraid to change the recipe, not knowing how it's going to change my bread outcome, you know? Yeah, yeah. But you can change, you can start including little by little. So you don't have to go all the way 100 % camout because you have no idea what you're getting into. But start switching. 10%, 20 % of your bread flour in the recipe with camout and see what the outcome will be. Of course, you'll have to adjust a little bit things like the amount of water, but be confident to do it. And if you're not sure, drop me a note and I'll be able to advise a little bit. Okay. So let's talk a little bit. Yeah. For everyone who is listening right now that is thinking about doing sourdough and really starting this journey. What is the very first, very first step someone can do who wants to start making sourdough bread at home? The very first step is reaching out to people they know and ask, have you got a sourdough starter? If yes, could I get some of it? Because making a starter from scratch is a journey in itself. I did it. Yes. Some people make it, some people make it, some people don't. And there is lots of frustration in the process because we rely a lot on the flower, on the environment, on everything. And also our knowledge, right? You see all these instructions of making the sourdough starter from scratch. But I like to tell people the fact that those people who wrote the instructions, they know what they are doing. Yes. But when you start, you have no idea what you're doing. And if your starter does not evolve in the same way, you are stuck. So making a sourdough starter from scratch is not impossible, but it's a journey and it can take five, six days. can take three weeks. It can take two months. So people have to expect that. the very first step is reach to your friends, reach to your community, reach out and ask, is there any sourdough starter available somewhere? Could I get a little bit of it? Yeah, I mean, I think that even involves, right, just maybe sending out a message on your Facebook with your friends and just asking friends or family on your Facebook. This big conglomerate of people, hey, do you have? Yeah. And it's funny because I started my Stardough from scratch and I didn't think it was working. I was like five weeks in. I did things work as I said, I'm just going to, give up. And so I went and bought a dehydrated starter from someone online and used that. But right when I did that, The one I started from scratch started being active and producing. So now I have two. And what I had found was my friends were coming to me and saying, Nico, can I have a little bit of your starter? I'd like to do it at home. So I just showed them how to feed it and take care of it and that type of thing. So it's true. You don't want to make this journey, for me, I feel like more complicated than what it needs to be. Yep. Simply go out and see if you can get a little bit from a friend or family member. Yep. I know that for a lot of people actually making a starter from scratch is like an ambition, it's like a challenge. They want to tick off the list, but in reality, we don't have to go through it unless it's necessary. And what I encourage people to do, reach out, get a starter. Once you know how things are going, start to make yours, try to make yours if you really want to make a starter from scratch. But if you understand how things are, going, it will be much easier for you to make a sourdough starter from scratch rather than throw yourself out in the unknown. Yeah, I've always said on my sourdough journey that it's really about understanding. For me, I felt like the science and the reasons on how things react to one another. Yeah. It's one thing just to go in and dump all these ingredients together and just hope you get a good loaf of bread. But it's another thing to go in with knowledge of understanding, OK, if I add this, this is how it's going to affect what I'm doing. Yep. So I do think doing a little bit of research, especially even if you get a starter from someone else, doing a little bit of research on how you can take care of it properly and how it works. I even researched, like, I didn't know what fermented yeast was. I had to research what that actually was and how it affected and rose bread before I even started my journey. So I think doing a little bit of research is helpful, but not to a point where you're going down this big black hole and making it so complicated where you don't want to start. Yeah. Yeah. And, research is great, but you need to be very careful how and where you are doing your research. So true. There's so much out there on Instagram blogs and you know, there's lots of information. and you don't know what to pick and whom to trust. I think, yeah, definitely you need to understand, even if you get a starter, you need to understand how things are working because otherwise you won't be able to make it. You won't be able to make bread, right? And you won't be able to take care of your starter. So definitely you need to do a little bit of research. I'd rather go and buy a book. If you ask me, I'd rather go and buy a book and read that book rather than Google. Yep. And end up on 10 different blogs or 10 different Instagram pages. And you're like, OK, which one is the right way? Right. Or is this wrong or is this right? be very careful when you're doing your research. Because you would agree with me, right, that I feel like every sourdough baker does it in their own way. Absolutely. Like, like, like no right or wrong way. Just everyone has a preference on how they do things like I like. For instance, when you say get a book, I 100 % recommend this. I started out with a book called The Perfect Loaf. Yeah, Mauricio's book. It's great, actually. Yeah, that's the book I started reading before it really went heavy online. And it's a game changer because it showed me the pictures of like the process and how everything, why things work the way they did. So that's a recommendation if you're looking for a book. So what are the essential for someone just starting out and they're saying, well, okay, I want to start this journey. What are the essential tools and the basic ingredients needed for someone to start sourdough baking? So you definitely need flour. You can't make it without. And you definitely need some salt. But I think everyone has some salt in their kitchens because we use salt for everything, right? Yes. Not for everything, but even for sweet. you know, for something for sweet dish or anything, you would put a little bit of salt to enhance the other flavors. So everyone has salt. But get flour. would, again, personally, I will stay away from plain flour. I would at least use a bread flour if you can get, you know, two types of flour and mix even better. But let's start with bread flour. Get the flour, have some flour, have salt. You use the flour to feed your starter. You use the flour to make bread. Great. You don't need more than that. And then in terms of tools, funny enough, I would say you can make it without. There is just one tool that you really need, and that's a scraper. Because things can get very messy, and the scraper will be your lifesaver throughout the process, especially when you get to shaping, which is... At the beginning, when you're making for the first few times, like so messy and you don't know what you're doing and you feel like just taking the piece of dough and put it to the bin because it gets so annoying and so frustrating. But the scraper is a lifesaver. You can make it without any other tools, especially if you're at the beginning and if you don't want to spend money. Everyone has an oven. Everyone has a bowl to mix things. I think there is actually one other tool, one other, let's call it a tool, which is a scale. You can also make it with cups. I'm not a fan of cups because we are talking volume and it's water, flour starter, especially when filling the starter. Half a cup of flour is not the same with half a cup of water. Right. And things can get... go in the right, wrong direction. So a scale definitely on the scraper, but you can make it, you know, with any bowl that you have in your cupboards to mix the dough, to handle the dough. You can make it with another bowl lined with a kitchen towel for the proofing. So you don't need a proofing basket. If you really want the proofing basket, you can buy one. You can score the loaf with any serrated knife. So you don't need that. Yeah, I mean you can bake on a tray in the oven. It's as easy as that. So if we think, my God, I need lots of tools to get started. Actually, we don't need lots of tools to get started. We just need a sourdough starter, flour and salt. And that's it. The scraper. Yeah. The scraper would be beneficial. So what kind of salt do you like to use in your sourdough? I prefer sea salt flakes. Okay. Unrefined. flakes. Yes, it's old flakes. It's locally sourced. I did not even know they made flakes. Yeah, I mean, it's natural. I can share with you after. Basically, this is how they are harvested from the sea. Okay. Yeah. So it comes in a flake form. Okay. Let's call it that way. And it's unrefined, unprocessed. So I'm very much into using unprocessed, unrefined ingredients. And it's the same when it comes to salt. But you can use any salt. Make sure that it's not the crystals, because if you salt crystals, they won't dissolve. It won't dissolve very easily. You can put it in water, let it dissolve by the time you add the salt to your dough. Ideally, it's fine salt or more like flakes that would easily dissolve. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And what I know, I look at your Instagram and you, I mean, you have beautiful loaves, beautiful loaves of bread. What are your top tips for achieving like the perfect crust or the perfect crumb in sourdough bread? I know if you've been wanting to start sourdough, maybe you've already done some research. You'll see people on Instagram open up their loaves so you can see the inside of their loaves, right? They cut it in half. Yeah. And the whole thing is, give me a crumb read. People want like the perfect crumb. guess this is like some, you know, the crumb tells you whether or not you've made quote unquote the perfect loaf. Yeah. Now I've never personally really figured out what my crumb is even supposed to look like. But with that being said, what are some tips and things that people can do to achieve this quote unquote perfect crust? Like when I say crust, I'm talking about like, you know, getting that ear. Yeah. The sourdough ear that everyone talks about, right? And all these things. I always get an ear, but it's not like I've ever really specifically tried to. It's just what happened when I scored my dough. Yeah. But can you explain a little bit more about that? Yeah, absolutely. So. Perfect is very personal. So a perfect loaf might be different for you than what it is to me, right? But I think what we are looking, what everyone is looking after is that, you know, loaf that opens up nicely and you have the year and you have an open crumb. Now, some people say if the crumb is too open and you have too many large holes in it, you're like you can't put anything on it because even the butter would fall through. The jam comes through the holes. Yes, everything goes through, right? So I think for me, a perfect crumb is a balanced crumb. So it's nor dense nor too aerated, but you have a mix of, you know, large holes, small... holes, medium holes, uniformly distributed. This is what I would be for me a perfect crump. And the crust, me as well, is for me a dark crust, crunchy crust. I don't like a pale crust. I think there's much more flavor in a crunchy crust. Crunchy is only after you bake it for a couple of hours because it will soften anyways. lots of people say on Instagram. in their comments that my loaves are burnt. And I don't reply back on those because one is a personal preference. I like my loaves dark. Two is also the flour that I use that by nature will give a darker loaf. No matter how I bake it, it won't be as light as you want it to be. Sure. But there is so much more flavor in a darker crust. And my dark loaves, although they are dark, because of the flour and the amount of water that goes in the dough, they will stay soft for three, four days. I think people associate this burnt crust with a hard crust that you can't chew on or you can't eat. But it's not necessarily true. I mean, it may be the case, but not always the case. Anyways, going back to how to achieve this perfect crumb and crust, I think starter is key. and taking good care of your starter is key. Because if you have, I mean, it may be a hundred years old starter, it may be a month old starter, but you want to make sure that your starter is robust enough and it's able to rise your dough. Because it's like you use expired yeast, right? So if it's expired, if yeast is expired, you won't have great results because it can't the dough as much as it could, right? So it's the same with your starter. I taking good care of the starter is key. And there are lots of things to say about taking good care of your starter, but you need to feed it often enough and to give it enough food. And by that I'm saying lots of people are keeping their starters on the counter and feed it once a day. You can't, you can't have a happy starter by doing that. You can't. So you need to feed it a couple of times a day, which is two times. give it more flour and water so that's not over fermenting. And lots of people are doing, you know, feeding their starters in equal amounts of water, flour, to the amount of starter they have in the jar, say 50 grams each. Again, that's not the key to success because again, it's like, I like this example, it's like I would give you a of pizza a day instead of giving you a pizza to make you, you know. Yes. to give you enough food to keep you active and with enough energy and yeah, not anxious and depressed. Yes, this is so funny. This is crazy to me that you're saying this because when we talked about all this information being online, right? You need to be careful where you get your information. So when I first started, I was told to feed my starter a one -one -one ratio. I leave mine on the counter. and I feed it once a day. it's too little. So, yeah, to hear you say that, I'm like, okay, maybe this is why my starter always smells really acidic. Yeah. Like maybe this is the reason. I just like... Yeah, that's the reason, not maybe. That's the reason. Okay. See, I'm learning something new. I'm learning something new. Okay. Okay. It's like, I mean, you give it too little food and basically... between two feeds, your starter over -ferments significantly, increases acidity and that's why you get the acidic sour, however you want to call it, odor. And that's not enough because yeast is not happy in that environment. Therefore, your loads won't rise as much as they could potentially rise. So what's your feeding ratio? Well, I don't necessarily like to talk about ratios, although this is what you find on social media. But first of all, I keep my starter in the fridge. okay. Yeah. To avoid these daily feeds, because then you end up with lots of discard and you're like, what am I doing with it? Yes. Yes. So I keep my starter in the fridge and then I would feed it, obviously in preparation for making the dough. eight hours before in a one for four ratio for those new to sourdough. It's one part starter, four parts water, four parts flour. mean, yeah, if you are new to sourdough and listening to this, it might be pretty confusing, but we can help you sort it out. Definitely. So this is what I'm doing. I will take it out from the fridge like eight hours before. one for four, eight hours, because this is how long it takes for it to be ready with that specific ratio. And then I would be using it to make bread with and then whatever is left, I will put back in the fridge. OK, so I'm doing this every, you know, couple of times a week and helps me with managing this cart. OK, OK. Now I have one another question. Is it I have a lot of people who say, Miko, can you make a gluten free loaf for me? Is it? possible to make sourdough without gluten? And if so, how do you do that? Is it just by using a gluten -free flour? Yeah, so you need a gluten -free flour for your starter and you need the gluten -free flour for your bread, for the dough. But in all honesty, I'm not an expert in gluten -free because obviously when you make sourdough and everything you see on social media, you rely a lot on the gluten. Yes. Especially to get that open crumb. gluten -free flour behaves very differently and it needs special attention and special, you know, different knowledge. And I don't have that, but it's definitely possible. Okay. So there are people out there making gluten -free sourdough bread. It's definitely possible and achievable, but it's not me, you know. being an expert. Yeah, it's not me either. Okay, so let's talk about, we talked about, you said you keep your sourdough starter in the fridge so that way you don't have as much discard. Yeah. So can you explain what discard is? Because I want to talk about, I make so many things with sourdough. I know a lot of people only think about sourdough bread. Yeah. But there are so many other things you can make. I make sourdough pizza. I make muffins. I make English muffins. I make sourdough cupcakes. I literally, feel like if it's a bread product, you can make it sourdough. So can we talk about discard and discarding what that is? Yeah, yeah. So every time we feed our starter, we might or not, but most of the times we have to take some out of it. So imagine you have 50 grams of starter in your jar, and you want to feed it, but if you were to feed the entire amount, you will end up with too much starter at the end and you won't need it, right? So what am I going to do with 400 grams of starter? I won't need that unless I'm making four loaves, right? So in order to... minimize the waste at the end, you take some out at the beginning before you feed. that, you you have 50 grams in your jar, you want to feed 20 grams of it. The 30 grams that you take out is, you know, you can, it's called discard because you can throw it away, right? So you discard it. Right. Yeah. But don't throw it away. I always tell people don't throw it away. No, because, because that Discard is what you use to make discard recipes. yes, and in fact, Correct. this has been one of the funnest ways for me to use sourdough in my life. I mean, just the other day I got up and I made sourdough pancakes for my kids. Yeah. Super easy, right? Or, you know, if you're a baby struggling, you have a busy night with all the kids' activities and all these things, throw some of your discard in a hot pan, make some pizza crust. Yeah. Like it's super, super, so, All right, I know this is getting a long episode, but before we go, it's all right. You do coaching. Yeah. And you do one -on -one coaching and you have amazing classes. So if there is anything you could say about sourdough baking that you want to mention to the listeners, what would it be? Because I know sourdough is really near and dear to you. mean, this is your full -time job now. Is that correct? Yeah, it is my full -time job. Yeah. Yeah, so mean, for it to be your full -time job, I feel like you have to have some type of passion around it. And I have a passion around it too. I always feel like I wanna scream for the rooftops that everyone needs to get started because it really isn't as complicated as hard as the internet makes it seem. And it's just a wonderful thing that you can bring to your family. So what's something you would like to mention about sourdough? And then also talk. us a little bit about your classes and your one -on -one coaching because I think that you're the only one in the space that I have seen that doesn't offer just online classes but one -on -one coaching. Yeah. I think one -on -one coaching helps people dive into very specific topics because you might be saying, I have these five questions, help me. whereas some other people would have very different questions. So I can tailor the session to your needs. Or if you tell me, this is how my starter looks like, this is how it behaves, what should I do or what am I doing wrong? Or how can I make sourdough work for my life or my routine? I can come up with suggestions on when to feed the starter, when to start the dough, how to feed the starter so that you can make it work. I think the most important thing when it comes to sourdough, I mean, you can read a lot of things about its benefits and you can talk to friends, you can buy sourdough and you can get hooked into loving the bread, but not necessarily making it. I think the only way to make it happen and to make it happen for a long time, not a three months experiment, is to find a way. to make it part of your routine. Because if it's not part of your routine, it will always be a hassle. And if it's always a hassle, then you will abandon the journey very quickly. So if there is one thing I want to say is sourdough can be making bread at home and making anything at home can be as simple or as complicated we want it to make or we want it to be. So you can simplify the process as much as you want, if you know how. So if you understand a little bit the why's or you ask for a little bit of advice, the process can be very simple. It doesn't take a lot of time. Like we said at the beginning, it seems like, my God, I have to be 24 hours next to it. In reality, if you were from home or if you're around, it takes like 15, 20 minutes max, and you need to make it work for your lifestyle. because if you work nine to five, there is a way to do it. If you are home all the time and you can make, you know, start your dough in the morning or at lunchtime, there's a different way around it. So, and there is no right or wrong. There is no one size fits all when it comes to starter maintenance, when it comes to the recipe that you're using. But I mean, there is a way. There's definitely a way. And I think the only regret I have, not necessarily regret, but... Let's say regret is the fact that I haven't started earlier because once you get into it and once you make great bread at home and once you don't have to rely anymore on the supermarket or on the bakery and once you can bring joy to people just by putting that on the table or taking a loaf of bread to your friends, you'll be like, I should have started this a while ago. I mean, we are all scared of new things. But we shouldn't. And especially if you ask for a sourdough starter, and if you get that from someone, you can dive straight into making bread. You just need a little bit of patience because your first loaf might not be great, your second loaf might be better, but not great either. And you can make 20 loaves by the time you're happy with it. And it also depends on what you're after. And the last thing I want to say, don't be intimidated by what you see on social media. When I started, was not, there was, I mean, I've learned from books and I've learned from Mauricio's The Perfect Love blog because there was no book at the time. But this is the book, if I can recommend the book, this is one of the books I've started with. I have that. I have that book. Yeah. It explains a lot about the process and the benefits and the health benefits and... It's amazing. It can be quite overwhelming if you just start making bread like Mauricio's book as well. They can be overwhelming because there's so much information, but it's a great book to have at home and you can always go back to it. But yeah, don't feel overwhelmed by the amount of information and don't feel overwhelmed by what you see on social media because that's not the reality. I mean, isn't that true? That's not the reality. Yeah. Any loaf of bread will be delicious. Believe me. Right. Yeah. OK, so I'm going to put actually in the show notes that book that you just showed as well, some of my favorite book recommendations. I'm like you. I've learned a lot of what I've learned from books, not so much online because it's true. I found out the more and more I researched on Instagram, on TikTok, I would just feel defeated. Yeah, I would feel like I would feel like my sourdough that I was creating at home was not good enough because it didn't look like what I was seeing online. So I gravitated towards books because I could learn at my own pace. Yeah, correct. So, okay, perfect. Where can people find you? Where, I mean, I know I've mentioned your sourdough explained on Instagram. I'll make sure I link her information also in the show notes. Do you have a website, a full website, right? Sourdoughexplained .com, yeah. Okay, perfect. I'll also make sure to link that. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Sourdough was, like I said, definitely one of my passions. I do want to mention before I get off, I know we talked a lot about the benefits. Yeah. I want to just quickly mention, I lost my mom back of April of last year. And there, I mean, I can't even begin to even find the words of the pain and the grieving journey that that started. But sourdough for me, one of the benefits was mental. It gave me something else to focus on. It allowed me to find peace in my heart with what I was doing. And it's very weird because I'm what it took either at all. However, I found the process of sourdough very soothing. And so I do wanna say that there is can be a mental aspect to this journey and this process. It can be like this very powerful self -discovery journey as well. and it really can help build your confidence on your skills and knowledge, not just with baking, but in the kitchen in general, because what I've found is when I started doing sourdough, I started cooking more as well. It was kind of this correspondence that I found in my life. Well, if I can do this, then maybe I can make a homemade lasagna from scratch. know? All right, so awesome, I will make sure to put all of Andrea's stuff. linked in the show notes today. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. If you were listening to this podcast today because you have had a dream of starting sourdough at home, I want you to know, and I hope this podcast episode has taught you that it is possible to just start. It doesn't have to be complicated. You can use the tools you already have at home. As Andrea mentioned, having a scraper and a kitchen scale is really important. But besides that, You can really start this journey today and I hope you do. I hope this podcast episode encourages you and motivates you to stop just wanting to start to actually taking the step to start. Start by sending out that message on Facebook or Instagram to family and friends, asking family or friends if anyone has a little bit of sourdough starter that you can start to use making bread at home. This is why I started the Mi Go Love podcast. is because if I can encourage just some of you out there who've maybe sat back on this dream, have been thinking about it, maybe wanted to start it, but thought it was too complicated to just take the step. Head over to Sourdough Explained. I'll have her and from Andra's information in the show notes. Head over there. Just go through some of her stuff. It's an incredible, incredible skill to have. And I find it very rewarding in my own life. not just for me personally, but for my family as well. So thank you so much for tuning in today's episode. Until next time. enjoying the podcast, make sure to subscribe, share this podcast with your friends, and leave a review wherever you are listening. Your support helps me reach even more listeners and keeps the conversation going. Until next time, keep feeding your curiosity.