Welcome to the Miko Love Podcast. I'm your host, Kamiko Love. And when I'm not educating about personal finance as the budget mom, I'm here diving into the exploration of my own passions and exploring a range of captivating topics. It's time to dive into conversations that ignite curiosity and inspire. Welcome to another episode of the Miko Love Podcast. If you are new, then welcome. I am so happy you are here. Today, I am so excited. to have this guest on my podcast. Like excited is not even the right word. And maybe it's because, you know, the guests I'm bringing on is a true inspiration to me. And I think it's absolutely incredible what this woman has achieved. Today I'm bringing on Randy Orm. And if you have not heard of Randy, I highly suggest if you are into running at all, you follow her for inspiration and motivation because man, she will lift you up. Now, Randi has accomplished a lot of amazing things. So not only does she have over 20 years of coaching experience, let me just tell you, this is just some of Randi's accomplishments. So she has a bachelor's in health science. She's a certified personal trainer and certified run coach and a sports nutrition specialist. She's a three time ultra marathon champion. She's multiple Boston and New York marathon qualifier, Ironman triathlete. She's done multiple big mountain summits. Her favorite one was Mount Rainier here in Washington. She's actually currently in the process of getting her mountain guide certification. She's four time rim to rim to rim finisher, Grand Canyon, Zion Traverse. I mean, it's absolutely incredible. Her race times blow me away. just to put this into perspective, okay, I've been running for a very long time, at least the last 15 years of my life. So I'm not saying I'm a beginner runner, but I'm definitely not a runner where I'm competing big time, right? I do it for just a mental outlet. I do it for fun. I don't have, you I'm not going out and trying to set PRs or anything like that. I'm just going out to finish the race. So I have my very first half marathon coming up on October 5th, and I do like to give myself a goal. My goal is to finish the half marathon in under three hours. Okay, that's just Like I said, I'm not out there to be the fastest. I'm out there just to finish. She has completed a half marathon in one hour and 23 minutes. That is, I was just talking to my husband about that this morning, is absolutely insane. Like it takes major training and dedication to hit these types of PRs. And not only that, she's a mom to five. Five kids, I have two. One's old enough, really independent. My little one's just over a year. And I'm struggling to find the time to get in my training and to get in my mileage. So the fact that she's a mom to five, not only you might know Randy from, she was on Race to Survive New Zealand with the USA Network TV show on the USA Network. That's something really big. It's just, she's an ultimarathon champion, just amazing. I'm just now getting into where I am starting to want to do more long distances. So I have my first half marathon. doing the Jackass half marathon in Kellogg, Idaho on October 5th. And I finally just got the courage to sign up for my first full marathon, the Windermere marathon here in Spokane, May 18th of next year. My ultimate goal, people all ask me like, what do you get? What's the ultimate goal here? After I do my marathon, I'd like to sign up for a 50K. My goal is when I turn 40, I want to enter my 40s with this big bang. And I have this goal. I want to run from my house where I am right now to the farm I grew up in in Chewilla, Washington. Now I did the calculation, the distance calculation that is a little over 76 miles. Now people are out there completing hundred mile races all the time. All the time. I know it's doable. I just have to learn how to train my body to do it. And not only that, and I'm sure Randy will go in with me on this. It takes a huge support network to do what she does. Like a major support network. I will have to have a support team when I attempt to run from my house to the farm in Tula. That's my ultimate goal. Okay. That is my end goal. That is what I'm wanting to get to. So. Let's jump in to the interview with Randy Orm. All right, so we have Randy Orm on the podcast. Randy, welcome and thank you so much for being on the Miko Love podcast. I am just so freaking excited to have you as one of my guests. Thank you, Miko. I'm so excited to be here. I'm happy that you asked me, so we're gonna have some fun. Yes, I have 10 ,000 questions. Like I wish I could have... a full 24 hours just to ask you. have so many questions. if you've been following my podcast, my audience, I've been on a running journey. I've been running for about 15 years, but nothing super serious. I started running as a mental outlet to help me with impulse shopping in my life. It was just a physical activity that I could gravitate to help me with some emotional spending that was really causing a lot of debt in my life after my divorce. Now, Here I am, you know, 15 years later and I signed up for my first ever race last year. no, this May, this May I did my first 10K. Woohoo! And I never, like the longest run I ever did was on a treadmill. I did 18 miles, but I always told myself that treadmill running wasn't real running. And so I got, I was super scared to do outside running because I couldn't control the elements of my run. I couldn't control the weather. I couldn't control what incline I was doing, right? Or like the route. On my treadmill, I felt like I had complete control over everything. And so after I did my 10K, I started following you because I wanted to start doing more outdoor, longer endurance races that kind of pushed what I thought I was capable of doing. So that's my background in running. I just signed up. I have my first half marathon, October 5th, I'm doing the Jackass half marathon in Kellogg. And then I got super crazy and I signed up for my first full marathon, which I'm going to be competing and doing that in May of next year here in Spokane. My ultimate goal is to run from my house here in Spokane, Washington to my family farm in Chewila, which is 75 miles away. Can I come? That's my Yes. my God. How did it join you? Yes. mean, and that's my ultimate goal. So I lost my mom unexpectedly when I was 30 weeks pregnant in last April. I just had my little one just turned over one, he's 13 months now. When I lost my mom very unexpectedly, running was my outlet to grieve for her. That was my time where I felt very close to her. And so it only makes sense that I wanna do my first really long run from my house to where I grew up on the family farm with her. So can you please tell me a little bit about your running story? Why did you start running and ultimately what has kept you, I mean you have accomplished, I did it in my intro, but what has kept you on this running journey to get to the point you are now? I'm gonna answer your question, but I'm gonna start with saying one thing because I don't. I don't know if you know this, but I lost my mom also very, very unexpectedly when I was a young mom. And running was a massive piece. And the way that I, I was almost gonna make me emotional right off the bat, here we go. But in the way that I healed and the way that I grieved her and also I feel very, very close to my mom when I run. And she'll just pop up in the middle of nowhere. I know we all have our own beliefs and that's a beautiful thing about being a human, but I can feel her running with me in spirit sometimes. And so we can circle back to that, but I just, had to start off with that because that's, you know, not super common and I'm sorry that we share that. Me too, thank you. It's certainly a gift in the grieving and healing process and that's ongoing. But now to answer your question. So I started running. I am one of those annoying people that have loved to run my entire life. I was a little girl who loved to run. I've always been athletic and played a lot of sports. But what I would say is I was always never the most coordinated or the best with the ball, but I was always the fastest on the team. So somehow being fast meant I must be good. And really I wasn't. It was just like, I could beat people to the ball. or run around the bases quicker. And then I passed it to somebody who knew what they were doing. Right. And so I always, always have loved to run. And then I got into middle school and you you start running those annoying things like the timed mile and all of that. And I found out, wait a second, like I'm beaten. I'm not just beating the girls. I'm beating the boys. It feels good to be good at something just as a kid. even as a kid, I found that running was a release for me. I am the first born oldest. oldest grandchild on both sides, oldest daughter, nobody ever put any pressure on me. My parents did a really good job on that. I just put it on myself. I can be a tense person. I'm very goal -driven. so from a young age, I got that running balanced me out mentally, emotionally, and was like just this euphoric, joyful experience. So even as a preteen teenager, I would go on runs. I'd be like, hey mom, can I go? run to here, run there. Even when I got, I would go on trail runs with our dog when I was a teenager before we even really knew what trail running was. Right. Because I was raised also, another part of that is my parents are very outdoorsy. I was raised doing crazy things, backpacking, climbing, doing wild things in nature from the time I was a child. So kind of combining all those loves. has always just been a part of who I am. And I think that when it's that way, and I know it's not this way for everybody, it doesn't need to be. But to answer that question, it's always been a part of me. I feel like it is a piece of who I am. It doesn't define me, but I am certainly very grateful for what it adds and gives to my life. 100%. I feel the exact same way. 100%. know, going back, losing our moms. One of the things that I started doing when I did my first 10K, which I never thought I could do, but I did it. I've started running with the photo button of my mom on, I put it right close to my heart. And anytime I doubt myself or I'm really struggling on my race or I want to take a walk break and I know that I don't need to, or I'm just really pushing myself, I'll just touch her photo button. Do you have you done anything like that with your mom where you've dedicated something on your clothing or, you know, people ask, well, who are you running for? You know, I of course always put that story of my mom when I'm signing up for my races. Have you done anything like that? Yeah. And that's really interesting that you have the heart and you'll touch your heart. It's like almost like, hi, mom. Love you, mom. Yes. I with me, mom. So this is wild that I do the same thing with my left shoulder. I tap my left shoulder. And this is like, feel like she just almost gives me a little squeeze. Like I got you sweetheart. And it happened when I found out she passed away. That is where I felt her presence. And so from that time forward out loud, I tap my left shoulder. When I'm running and you're exhausted, whether I'm doing a 5k or a hundred mile race, we all have demons when we're out there pushing ourselves. I don't care if you're one of the world's best. We all have moments when we're running. where we think today's not the day, it's too hard, should I walk, should I quit and try again another day? It happens to all of us. Or maybe you're having a euphoric moment and you're like, I'm on top of the world. I'm gonna like, this is the best race I've ever had. But oftentimes in those moments, you don't really wanna speak, but I'm thinking about my mom. So I just do a little left shoulder tap and I know she's there. So I have never physically, I love your idea, the button, the picture. I've never done that before and I love that. So I might have to copy you. think that's really beautiful. Yeah, it's just a little one inch photo button. But now I actually, what I did is I turned her, my mom was cremated, she was Buddhist. And so we did what she wanted and we had her cremated. And so I actually was able to turn her ashes into a diamond. And so now that's what I wear. I wear it running. I never take it off. So now I have that as well. I'm the same way where like, just tap it. I'm like, all right, mom, let's go. Like, let's get this done. So that's really cool that we share that. I did not know that that was something that you also experienced. That's awesome. So I know that you're a coach when it comes to running, you have 20 plus years of experience. have a ton of credentials. Tell me a little bit about What you would say to someone who comes to you and says, I would really like to start running, but I don't believe I'm a runner. I don't think I can do even a mile. I know a lot of people who start out like me, when I first started, I'm like, there's no way I can even run a mile. Like, and I didn't, I wasn't able to for a really long time and that got really discouraging because I'm like, well, geez, if I can't even run a minute straight, right? Without stopping. I'm not made for this. What would you tell someone that you're coaching who's saying that? Because I know I have a lot of people in my audience who see my journey or your journey and would really like to start, but feel that way. Yeah, it's hard to know where to start when it's so overwhelming that you don't even think that it's possible. Consistency is king with running. I have a friend. This is one of the most inspiring stories and I will make it short. But when he decided to run, he could not run to the stop sign at the end of his block. He was inspired to run because he was out of shape and could not carry his tired daughter up the stairs. And he said, this is enough. I want to be there for my children. I want to be healthy for my children. And he was embarrassed to run during the day. He was uncomfortable with his body physique and was dealing with some issues there. And so midnight or later every day. my gosh. He, know this one like gets me. He would run to the stop sign and back over and over again. Well, I think he had to run, walk it. Right. he got to the stop sign, he said, I'm going to go a block further. And then I'm going to go a block further. In middle of the night, he did this for months, Nico. Months. A block of running. two blocks running, three blocks of running in the middle of the night when no one could watch him. I'm trying to remember the timeframe that he ran in the middle of the night. And then he started feeling better about himself. then he started eating healthier. And then he started, you know, feeling more like joyful. And so eventually he got the confidence to start running during the day. Eventually he got the confidence to start running further. Eventually he got the confidence to go with the running group. He's now an ultra marathoner and a qualifying runner. And he started with not being able to run to the stop sign at the end of his street. So as far as to me, that story illustrates beautifully what most of our potential is. We might not be able to run to the stop sign, but that doesn't mean that we can't start. Right. That can't be part of our journey. I would say that a lot of times one of the biggest reasons new runners end up giving up is they do too much too quickly. They think, well, if I can't run a mile, what business do I have? And they'll also go like full into it. Every run is a fast run. With my beginning athletes that I coach, it's interesting that you bring that up because if someone who's more on the beginning side reaches out to me, they always end up saying, I understand that you probably can't coach me because I'm not good enough or because I'm not a lead enough. not fast enough. And that's never the case. Like a coach, just like we know a mentor for anything in life, they're not just for the people that are experts at it, even experts need a mentor, but they're a coaches in any area is for all of us when we decide that that's a goal or something we want to focus on. So I always I am always like, No, if you if you have a goal, I want to help you get there. But it's about starting that Again, running to the stop sign. So with most of my beginning athletes, we start with run, walk, intervals. And I think that's something that most people disregard and think, well, I'm not a real runner if I'm walking. Heck yeah, you're a real runner if you're walking. I just paced a 100 mile race this weekend, ran 40 miles with her. I could pull up the data on my watch, but we had Taffa that. That doesn't mean she's not an amazing ultra marathon runner. I think that people have it in their minds. of what it means to be a runner. And it doesn't mean that you have to be able to run fast and far to be a runner. If you like to run and you go run, whether it's to the stop sign or further, you're a runner. That's so funny you said that because, so me and my husband kind of got into it last week. So my husband, little background on him, he is an athlete at heart. Okay, he's 36 right now. He's still doing flag football. He's still doing baseball league. He's still, mean, he he's in like 30 different leagues, okay? But he's intense. He's an extreme competitor where when he sets out to do something, he challenges himself to do it in the most extreme way. So when we were talking about me doing my half marathon, I kept saying, and I don't know why I have this fear. Every single time I know I'm about to do a race, I have this extreme fear like, I'm not going to be able to finish this. Right. It never crosses in our mind. Like if we need to stop and walk, it's okay. You know, it's okay that, you know, so I can get there. We were talking and he said, no, no, no, you can't train for a half marathon or a race and then walk it because he said anyone can walk it. He, know, and this, of course he's talking from about him personally, what he would do. Right. Right. He would run it. The whole thing, he's like, if I'm not running it the entire way and at the best pace that I absolutely can, then what's the point of doing it, right? And I'm like, no, I have practiced the run, walk, run method in my life. I find it very beneficial to at least build my confidence and being able to say, I can do that. It's okay if I have to walk a little bit. I can still get to that finish line. So that method has helped build that confidence. But my husband, he's like, no, no, you can't say that you finished a marathon if you walked it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, you can't say that. we're kind of, and I know that's just because he's extreme at heart, right? He's an extreme competitor with himself. So it's good to hear you talk about, it's okay if you need to walk. It doesn't make you any less of a runner because I found that in my own journey that if I wasn't able to walk, I don't think I would be where I am at today because don't you? mean, don't you think? Gosh, how absolutely terrifying would it be to sign up for any race knowing you have to absolutely run the whole thing? And if you don't, you're a failure. You're out. You're out once you're out. Well, and let's say your goal, somebody's goal is your husband's goal. They're all in. For them, it's all or nothing. They've got a right to entire thing. But maybe right now they only can run to the stop sign. So how about long term? Sure, you want to run the whole thing? Let's make that a goal. But what are we going to do in the next 18, 20 months to get you to be able to run a half marathon? We're going to run lock and then slowly over time, the running intervals will get longer. The walking intervals will get shorter and your mind will be blown at your potential. But we've all got to start somewhere. Right. I know. I'm so excited to hear you say that because here you are kicking ass at 100 mile races, right? And I'm sure even during some of those, you might even yourself had to walk. Has there been an experience where you've had, you know, I'm talking like you're long distance running or even a marathon where you've had to stop and walk? Yeah, I mean, of course that certainly happens. I mean, I've had the amazing PR races of my life where I'm all in it and grinding and keeping that gnarly pace and Sometimes that's just not the case. Sometimes there are walk breaks, whether it's going through an aid station where I would normally grab my cup and run on through splash, drink, swish, go, or whether it's at any given moment. But yeah, it happens to the best of us. Now, 100 mile races, it's a little bit different than like a road race because a lot of times you're running through mountain passes, you're running up to a 10 ,000 foot peak. So I use running in quotes because even people who win it, they're gonna hike, you know? And so you, that's just, it's part of the process. And it's okay. And even say you were running a road race and your goal was to run the whole thing and you had a cramp or you had a moment where you just needed to walk forward a myriad of reasons. That also doesn't mean that you still can't reach your goal. That also doesn't mean that you still haven't kicked butt. I mean, I think one thing is a lot of times when people are running, if they do have a moment and they pull back and they do feel like they're falling apart, they're like, well, it's all over. guess this race was a bust. Absolutely not. Take a moment, gather yourself and then get back after it. Okay. And what are your thoughts on running without headphones versus with headphones? my husband, he's like, you know, babe, if you want to make it even harder for yourself, take away your headphones and try doing it without your headphones. I'm like, no, no, no. Because here's the thing, my headphones aren't just to listen to my favorite podcasts or my favorite playlist. What my headphones do for me is they help me with my anxiety. They bring me into a comfortable space at the beginning of the race where your adrenaline's really pumping, right? And you're like, for me, I have like severe anxiety and I'm like terrified and I feel like I'm just gonna crap my pants and I'm just like, all these feelings, right? And you're just, mean, I like the feeling of just about just to start a race, like when you're... on that line ready to go and you're waiting for them to tell you to start is like the craziest feeling ever. I don't care what like if you're, you know, a runner like yourself, or you've been doing it for, I feel like everyone feels that at beginning of a race. Yeah. So having that music, it reminds me to stay grounded, but it helps me so I don't start off going super fast because what I noticed is I watch everyone else around me and when they start I feel like everyone just freaking books it. And I am doing the Peloton training and they told me no matter what, one of the worst mistakes you can do is start off your marathon doing an eight minute pace on your mile. Cause what you're going to burn out and not have the energy towards the end. So what are your thoughts about running with headphones versus not have you ever run with headphones or do you? Yes. Headphones, the controversial topic. Okay, I'm gonna say it like it is. This is the truth. It is up to you. I am a big fan of doing what's going to set you up for success, physically, mentally, emotionally. When you get to the start line of a race, it really is the victory lap. You've put in the training, you've put in the hard work, you've made yourself vulnerable by signing up for the race. by doing the training, by toeing the line, that in and of itself is like you have won the battle, right? You got there, you got to the start line. So from that point forward, it is about putting all of the things in your arsenal that are gonna help you have success. And if someone wants to raw dog it up there with no headphones because they feel gnarly and for some reason, but it doesn't make you any less of a runner, whether or not you use headphones and I stand so strongly behind that with and then I'll give you a little bit of kind of I don't know the vibe in the in the running ultra community. Yes. I would say that I usually run with headphones. would say okay 60 probably 70 % headphones 30 % no headphones. I this summer I did my first hundred mile race without headphones though the whole thing. We weren't allowed. We weren't allowed to have them on the course. It's a really cool course. It's called Old Dominion 100 Miler. It's one of the five original 100 mile races in the U .S. It's in Virginia and it's the only 100 miler left where the horses run with you because that's where all the milers originally came from. And so because you're running with horses for the safety of participants as well as the animals, we at the pre -race meeting, you are instructed on like trail etiquette with horses. And part of that is being cognizant, being able to hear them coming, being able to communicate with them. Because when they don't see you, they hear you, but they know human voice very well. So if you announce your presence to the animal, they know, it's just a human. I'm good, we're running together. But I was actually really excited because I had never done that before. And I thought, okay, mentally we're gonna have to go to some new places. Because for me, when I'm having a really dark moment, and I throw on some gnarly 90s hip hop song or something. just brings me back to life. So when I'm doing 100 mile races, I have a rule that I don't put my headphones in until I hit the marathon mark. It's my silly made up rule for myself. It's not like I my athletes do that or anything, but it's kind of like I give myself little treats along the way. And so when I hit the marathon mark, I do a little If people are around me, I'll announce it. I'm like, just hit the marathon mark. Like, I don't know, it's just fun for me. And then that's my, that's my moment to like pull out my AirPods. Trail etiquette for trail runners. That's a little bit different though, because of trail safety. And a lot of times you're on a track, you need to pay attention to animals, humans. And so typically my advice to anybody on the trails is to do one air pod. That way you can enjoy the podcast, music, the audio book, whatever you prefer, but you can still have proper etiquette and you can hear if someone needs to pass. so that you can be aware of your surroundings since you're in a wild territory with wild animals. not that you need to fear that, but there's certain things you do, to keep your, you yourself safe. Right. And that's my other thing is as I don't. I love that this is the situation we're in, as female runners, we are more vulnerable and we have to have situational awareness. We have to be cognizant of what's going on around us. And I do, I will admit, I will put both my AirPods in on road runs sometimes and it'll all be blasting music. Have ever had that moment where there's like a biker coming by and then they're like, you're left and you're like, my God. And you like scoot over and maybe apologize. And that means I didn't hear anything that was going on. Whenever I do that, I'm like, Brandy, I'll pull one and put it away. big fan of AirPods, big fan of music, audio books, podcasts, I use it all. While the caveat is being aware of your surroundings, having situational awareness and making sure you keep yourself safe. That's so true because that's funny that you said that because I tend to blast. my music to the point where it's so loud. I can't hear anything. And I do that just to be able to put myself a hundred percent in the zone. But it's true. Yeah. And I did not. OK, this might make me sound really dumb. I just up until a month ago, I did not know that when you run on the road, you are running against traffic. Yes. So important. I always thought you run. I don't know where I picked this up or where I started believing this, but I was thought I was told to run with traffic. So One of my friends was passing me, was just driving his car and he's like, well, why were you running on that side of the road? I'm like, where else am I supposed to be? goes, you're supposed to run against traffic. I'm like, what? No, I don't know why I just started off believing that. that was one of the things I got to thinking like, maybe you should only wear one headphone because if someone literally was right next to me screaming, I probably wouldn't hear them. But it's true, having that situational awareness because it is absolutely so incredibly sad hearing of these notorious stories about runners who are being kidnapped and grabbed on their runs. And I think about that for myself because I run out in the country. I live out in the country. I run in the country. There's not a lot of cars around me. But even if one did pull up next to me, I probably wouldn't hear it with my headphones on. With how loud I listen to my music. So that's a really good suggestion. Just wearing one. Yeah, and wearing one, honestly, I don't enjoy it as much. It's not as fun. And I can relate to you when, especially when I have speed work or a hard workout, putting both of those in and like blasting the music and getting, it helps me get in the zone as well. not, my time is very busy, so it helps me just focus in and because I shouldn't be really thinking about the stresses of my day when I run, right? So there is something about music that does help me zone in and focus. So if I do want, both headphones in, then I'll try to choose a route that I know is safe from traffic and more, there's more people, there's houses around. And so, then, you know, I also do want to say, I don't, none of us should live in fear like that. joy of it. But if we follow a few simple guidelines that allows us to not be fearful because we're setting ourselves up for success. 100%, 100%. Okay. So would you agree with me when you, when I say that Something I've kind of discovered with running is a lot of it has to do with mental toughness. Because my husband, when I first met him, I was a cheerleader in high school. That's what I did. I did volleyball. I did track for a little while, but ultimately I ended up lettering and cheerleading and doing that. So for me, anytime I feel uncomfortable, like I feel a little sore, I'm like, nope, I'm done. Like I'm walking up a hill and my legs are hard. Nope, I'm going back turning around. But when I met my husband, introduced me to mental toughness, being able to push through the times when you are uncomfortable. And he said something to me a week ago. He said, there's a difference between being hurt and being uncomfortable. And a lot of us, when we feel uncomfortable, we end up giving up. It's almost like our body's shut down. give up because He was pulling me up this hill on my bike. I hate riding my bike. My legs were stinging so bad. And it's like a huge uphill and he's sitting there riding his bike up and I'm, he looks back and I stopped and I'm just like, Nope, I'm not doing this. Nope. He's like, come on, push through it. You got to push through that being uncomfortable. So how do you help your clients develop mental toughness, particularly during like maybe challenging moments in a race or a lawn? you know, long run training program. How do you develop that? Yeah, mental toughness is a deal breaker when it comes to endurance sports. When it comes to, I would say it's just as important as the physical training that you do. here's the good news. You know, just like our muscles and our body can be trained to go further, to go faster, to lift more, to push and pull more. So can our mind. Our mind can be trained. It's we, I look at it as another muscle. I look at it as another Avenue to progress and our so, so mental toughness, even if you don't have it naturally, you can develop it. I do not promise it can be developed. I feel like even with my own children, some of them naturally have it so much more than others, you know, it's that same thing. Like this is uncomfortable. I need to stop and you're like, no, you're not injured. It's uncomfortable. You can keep going. And there's a big difference between the two. So one of the best ways, there's a few ways I feel that really can help you develop mental toughness. One of them is during your training process, I have my athletes come up with a list of, and this sounds so corny, but there's just, there's really no way around it. Sometimes you have to embrace the cheese. You have to come up with some mantras, some lines. You have got to come up with some little, some lines, some one -liners that are going to push you through. didn't. come this far, to come this far. Whatever it is, sometimes when I'm doing a really hard workout, I will repeat the same three lines over and over again for like an hour. Like my body is strong, my legs are tough, my mind is reliable. I'll just pick, or I'll say like strong, tough, fast. Three words, over and over and over over over. You've got to know what your why is. Like, why are you doing this race? You have to go back to that and remember it so that on race day, you can go back to those tough moments. And so the other thing is actually practicing doing really hard things during training. Because Being uncomfortable. Being uncomfortable because that is what will give you the confidence. I was, when you are, you do toe the line and you are having a hard moment because you can look back and say, you know what? A few weeks ago, I did 12 Hill repeats and I was cursing Randy's name the entire time. But guess what? I did it. I did the Hill repeats. I did the hard pot workout in the middle of the day. I'm tougher than I think I am. I'm stronger than I think I am. And so the main two things is picking a few lines that you can repeat in your head that resonate with you and what resonates and works for you might not for me. So you have to do a little soul searching and do a little digging on what is going to hit right for you. And then be willing, it's a vulnerability thing too. And being okay, trying it out, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't. And then you're gonna go use what you've been practicing, use that newfound confidence, and then you use that on grace day. And the more you get yourself uncomfortable, the better you get at it. And so you have to be willing to go there. And if that's going there quietly on your treadmill when no one else is around, that's fine. If that's going there quietly on your Peloton by yourself in your workout room, that's fine. But you have to find ways to get uncomfortable and not quit. Okay. So I know you mentioned kids. Yes. I saw that you have five kids and I'm like, like super human because I have two and even I, you know, I run two businesses and I'm busy just like many others. I have a hard time finding the time to not only get in my long runs, like I just did a 10, my longest ever outdoor run endurance run was 10 miles. just did that on Saturday and I don't care, but you know what? I'm just going to say it out loud. I cried after that one. It was very emotional for me because it was like, I just fricking, I'm going to cry now. It's like, I just fricking did that. And I never thought ever I could ever, ever. ever do 10 miles outdoors ever. So, but it also took me almost three hours. That's a long time. That's a long block of time out of your day when you have all these other things, let alone five kids. So what, how do you suggest runners or people who are having a hard time finding the time and the balance to, you know, balance training with other life commitments like work, family activities, school activities with the kids. I mean, you have five kids. So tell me how you find that balance in that time. Okay, first congrats on your 10 mile run. first couple of visits run. I love that you cried and it's a big milestone and that's a big deal. So congrats. Thank you. Yes. This subject is one I could talk about all day long. One of my because one of my biggest pet peeves and I just, get it all the time is I wish I could do that, but I don't have the time. It's like nails on a chalkboard for me. And I, that's speaking from a place of privilege, but I also have my own business. I don't miss my kids' activities so that I can go run. So I am, and I think that some people might think that and that's okay. You have to let go of what others think. But with what it comes down to for me, is a few different things. The first one is with your training, being efficient. More, less can be more. And so a lot of what I do, the people I train with, probably truthfully train a lot less hours than people think. So if you think that's where like a coach is gonna come in handy or being a student of the sport, because you can be efficient with your time and get a lot done. And what I mean by that is Because some people may say, my word, in order to do this, I need to be training this many hours a week. If you're efficient and you're focused and you're intentional with your workouts, you usually don't need to train as far or as long as you think. So that's certainly a part of it. Even me running 100 mile races, most days I'm not spending any more than 90 minutes training. my gosh. Crazy. think that people have it blown up and I can get that done before my kids wake up from school. can get one done before school, another one while my older ones are at school and my little guy's eating lunch next to me, right? And so getting creative, being efficient, and being willing. If you're a busy human being such as I would say most runners are because it's It's an accomplishment. We're driven. We're going after something extra. And there is an MO that fits when we dream big and we have goals. Most of us probably have a pretty full plate. So one thing I love to talk about is the art of the pivots. You might have your training plan written out really well and it might look nice and pretty, but guess what? Wednesday, when you were supposed to do that 90 minute run, both your kids were home sick from school. And so you're like, well, There goes week four. I can't do my 90 minute run. But guess what? You could have done a 35 minute run up and down your street while your kids were taking a nap or playing, I don't know, or on your treadmill. Or maybe like your husband gets home and you've got a little window before one of you has to go coach and you say, hey, we're doing cereal tonight. I've got 37 minutes. So I'm going to go run X for 37 minutes. And then guess what? You were consistent. Did you miss your 90 minute run and your hill repeats? Sure. But you stayed consistent and break by break. All of that stacks up remarkably well. It doesn't have to look perfect. It doesn't mean that you are nailing every workout. I can say this with full confidence. Every training cycle I have ever done, all of my PRs, the races I've won, I'll say my my top best training cycles, have never once ever done every single workout I have had planned. I would stretch to say I've never done every workout I have had planned in a single week, ever. And I don't ever feel like a failure. don't ever feel like, I'm not gonna reach my goal because I look at my training and I don't, you don't say what you didn't do this week, you say what you did do this week. Like five times. I lifted weights. Two times, I rode my bike one time, not, I missed this workout and I missed my lower body lift. Try again next week. Now clearly, if you repeat that pattern over and over again too much, you're also not gonna reach your goal, right? So you're threading very thin needle here. But oftentimes goal -oriented people, we can be such perfectionists that we get in our own way. Get out of your own way and work with the time that you have. But again, We all have the same 24 hours in a day. still you're like, well, you're doing these things. You got to get the training in somehow. So we talked about pivoting. We talked about maybe being more efficient with our training. So maybe you don't need to run five or six days a week. Maybe with the right training plan, you could do it with four days a week. Right. But now let's talk about, are certain amount of hours that you have to train. Right. I've got to run. 30 mile run on the weekend. So coming from a place of privilege, my husband and I, we've been married for 20 years in August. When we started dating and fell in love, we were training for triathlons. We were doing wild mountain races and rock climbing and mountaineering. And so we, it's always been a part of who we are. So I have a very supportive spouse and I have very supportive children because it's always been a part of our lives. I will get my kids involved with me in the process when I can. And we just, I would say having a supportive spouse and then a very efficient, organized schedule. So there's not a lot of, when I'm in a training block and it's very important, you have to be willing to sacrifice other things. And so that's where I'm never gonna sacrifice the most important things, right? my family, whatever is most important in your life, your job, whatever those things are, those are those glass balls that you can't drop, right? You're juggling so much. But the plastic balls that are mixed in there, let them drop. It's okay to have some dishes in your sink. It's okay to have the laundry, clean laundry pile up because guess what? It piles up all the time. I've got a mountain of nine loads of clean laundry, but guess what? Sunday after squirch. we're gonna turn on a movie and we're gonna have a folding party and that's fine. And I think that again, going back to getting out of your own way. So some things do have to go. And sometimes it means I really, really, really wanna watch Netflix tonight when I put the kids to bed and have a fatty bowl of ice cream. But if I do that, I'm gonna sleep in and I'm gonna have a stomach ache and I'm not gonna do my run. So that's where how bad do you want it comes in. So we take the first things that I said, you pivot, you're efficient. You've got support and the home, but then you also do have to make sacrifices. Cause I can't get up. If I've got four kiddo soccer games, I'm not going to miss my kids soccer games to run. And I sometimes wonder if that's what people think. I'm like, no, I got up at, I said no to Netflix. I said no to the ice cream. Not that ice cream's not great. I might, maybe I'll have it after my run. Nothing wrong with a bowl of ice cream. But in the moment, I decided to go to bed with my kids at 10. on the Friday night and not watch the movie. So I could get up at 345, do my long run and be ready for soccer games at night. So I'm a little long winded here because it's not, there is no such thing as a simple answer when it comes to this. Right. And I also don't think there's always a hundred percent balance. People ask me that all the time. is the balance? Like, how do you find work life balance? Well, when we think balance, we think of a scale of being 50 50, right? Or like this teeter -taller scale. Right. I don't see it that way because I don't feel like true balance ever truly exists. I feel like we're always sacrificing or making trade -offs in our lives to get what we need or want to accomplish. Correct. And I like the same with you having a supportive spouse. Like for me, my husband who's able to watch our little one when I'm out for three hours running, running around. Yeah. And so I think that's also really, really important. Having a support network. I, you know, I talked to my husband, One of the things that for me, I'm a big, dreamer. I'm a big dreamer. You know, I set out after my divorce and having this pile of debt. told myself I'm going to buy my house with cash. I'm going to go out and buy my dream house with cash. Took me seven years of living in a little itty bitty apartment with my one year old child, but I did it. But one of the things that I do when it comes to dreaming is I like to talk about it. I like to talk about my big dreams because it makes them more real for me. And so was talking to my husband about the run from my house to the farm. And I told them, said, okay, I'm going to need major support. I would like to have someone potentially maybe ride their bike next to me, or maybe we have some aid stations along the way where I could fuel up or hydrate or even get a high five or something like this. Right. And so we were talking about that for you when you're doing these hundred mile races, I'm thinking, okay, I'm just going into my first half marathon. I'm haven't even done a full marathon yet. What? gets you from the level I'm at. Okay, then this is my goal. I want to be a marathoner, but I want to be able to call myself an ultramarathoner. That's what I want. That's what I want for myself. How do you go? I mean, because when you're talking ultramarath... It's mind boggling that the human body without like, can go that far. It's just absolutely insane to even think that. So how do you go from person like me, okay, who is just about to do their first marathon to being an ultra marathon? What gets you there? What happens with maybe with nutrition in your life, which I'm finding is really big, learning how to properly fuel and what that looks like for you in your life. And I'm not talking just like taking gels on your run, but learning how to properly fuel your body before you even get to that start line. You're training. I mean, there's gotta be some ginormous shift to go from where I'm at to that level, right? That's what I'm thinking. Yes. Baby steps. So you have your first marathon coming up. have athletes come to me all the time in a similar situation where they're like, okay, I love to run. This is what I've done so far. I've run a half marathon someday. I don't just want to run a marathon. I want to run an ultra marathon. and so line upon line, like everything in life, I always recommend to people. So we're going to break this down. We'll start with the race and we'll go into kind of the nutrition and all of that. But I always recommend. your marathon is next for you. See what you about that. whether you want to do a few or one before, and then you move up to the 50 K, which is 31 miles, which that's considered the ultra marathon, like base distance, right? Anything longer than a marathon. then you move up to that. And if you want to try that on an easy trail, and nothing is easy about this to be clear, but if you're to run 31 miles for the first time, I wouldn't say pick a mountain race with 10 ,000 feet elevation gain. would say, wow, look at that lovely, lovely park that has elevation gain, but there's plenty of aid stations. It's at a cool time of year. You set yourself up for success. You don't go from a regular marathon to running bad water. in the desert. Great. So step by step, run a 50K, run a 50 miler, run a 100K, run a 100 miler. And in between all that, one thing is it doesn't always need to be a race. Go and say, hey, Randy, let's do a girls weekend. Pick another friend that likes to run and you're going to say, have you seen that gorgeous trail that goes from Eugene to wherever? Let's take 10 hours. let's set up a few aid stations along the way and let's go practice having time on our feet. So it doesn't always have to be a race. Putting yourself in uncomfortable situations, but there are goals in between in your normal life are going to be a huge part of building your confidence and then building also like physically our bodies, know, muscle memory. And so we want to be able to repeat that process. Your nutrition, your pre -race, your post -race, all of that matters so much more than I think most people understand. They are absolute deal -breakers. Part of the sport is training and doing all the runs like we just talked about. Part of the sport is getting tough mentally like we talked about, but other parts of the sport are deal -breakers and can make or break you. You can be really fit and ready and mess up your nutrition and not finish. You can be really fit and ready and wear the wrong shorts you didn't train in and your thighs can chafe so bad they're bled and you've got scabs and you don't finish. So you have to take care of yourself on many levels. As far as pre, during and post -race nutrition goes, it's very, very important that you practice that while you're training. on race day going, okay, well now I'm gonna do my marathon so I'll use the gels or I'll eat more before breakfast. It's an ongoing process that you should be involved in from the very beginning of your training. Most under fuel. It's wild and kind of remarkable how much if we train our stomachs and train our minds to consume the calories and the carbohydrates, how much it will help you reach your potential. I just got off a phone call with one of my athletes last night who has his first ultra marathon and he's running 70 miles. And he's been training his stomach to handle more calories while he runs. And for perspective, my goal for him right now is at minimum 300 calories per hour and at minimum 60 grams of carbohydrates per hour. So most of those calories are coming from carbohydrates. Now, if you hear that number, you should automatically think, that's the number for me. You don't know his body weight. don't. Right. We're you no details on my athlete other than the fact that he's running his first 70 mile race, his first ultra marathon. Oftentimes it will take a training cycle or two. So one, train your stomach to consistently accept food because you can run into GI distress. You can run into a myriad of issues. So one, you've got to train your body to accept it. Two, you've got to figure out what works best for me because I may find that I do really great with a certain nutrition brand. You may find, every time I have that product, I get nauseous. So we go, okay, we're again, more pivoting. That's not right for you. Let's look at it. Or I've tried five different brands. None of this works for me. Okay, we're going to switch to all natural foods. I think you might be... dates in a PBJ galley. You've got to take some time and have some trial and error there. I recommend food journals for runners when you start consuming calories and trying to figure out that good balance for you because sometimes it's not what you ate during the run. It might be what you had for dinner the night before. A lot of times my athletes who are constantly crashing, it's the night before they're under fueling. and the morning before they're run, they're under fueling. It's very important to get enough heart, not just food, enough carbohydrates when we run. There's, you know, some really wild diets out there. When you are an endurance athlete, it's not the time to skimp on calories. It's not the time to skimp on carbohydrates. You can have goals, if you are trying to lose weight or you're trying to change body composition, those things can be well and healthy done properly. But combining being an endurance athlete and needing all this fuel and then not giving yourself enough fuel is a resting disaster. So when I have an athlete or a client come to me and say, I want to run a marathon and I also want to lose 15 pounds. If their body competition, that's a healthy goal for them and we approve of that, that's awesome. The marathon is awesome. But I say, guess what? You get to pick one of those goals to work on at a time. One, those don't coexist healthily for most endurance athletes. So we focus on, do you want to run a marathon first? Or do you want to, because you train for performance or you train for weight loss, you cannot do the both together. there's, you know, people, some people may disagree with with me on that one, but having coached athletes for 20 years and been an endurance athlete for that long myself, they typically do not go well together. Right. Okay. Yeah, because I have tried the gels. And it's so funny when I asked that you said this amount of carbs for this long. Like you didn't say gel every 45 minutes because it's funny. I've been kind of looking at what should, you know, I'm new to this. learning longer distances and I know I need to fuel. So I've tried gummies, I've tried waffles and I've tried gels so far and I'm kind of just like going through all these options through my training runs. Like what is going to upset my stomach because I do have a sensitive stomach. So far I've been good with all I have my preferences but when I read online, the things I'm reading online, it says you need to gel 45 minutes into your, when you're running your half marathon, 45 minutes into your run, you should take a gel. then it's 45 minutes after that. Then I started reading articles that said it has nothing to do with the mileage or the time. It has to do with the amount of carbs you should be getting every hour during that race. So now I'm struggling and I'm sure I'll figure it out, but struggling with like, dude, can you just someone out there like build me a calculator for this? where I can put in like my... There are some calculators and but yeah, it's so... Most of it, 45 minutes, I would say is way too long for basically everybody. 98 % of anybody who's running. I just had three athletes this weekend run a race all with the intention of qualifying for Boston. All of them, different time goals because they're different ages, different weights. And all of them took a gel every 20 to 30 minutes. One was 20, one was 25, and one was 30. because I've worked with them long enough where we figured out that seems to be the sweet spot for them. But I do not recommend anybody goes over 30 minutes without consuming calories and carbs. Kind of back to what you said, as you read more and you see that there is more research, there's so much science and data to back this. This isn't just me like saying this is the Randy way. I'm saying that this is science, right? then we have science, we have data, and then we also have me seeing what works and doesn't work. If you wait longer than that, you just, you can't get enough in time. Okay. Because at 45 minutes, you would need to consume a larger amount and your stomach's not gonna love that. So it's almost like this steady drip rather than giving yourself a really large serving. So for some people, they'll set a timer for every 30 minutes. For some people, it's every three miles. That's going to depend on your pace. That's going to depend on your size, right? And so that's where some individual specificity for yourself as an athlete comes in. Like you said, you're starting to have your preferences as you're trying different things. Now, I will say if you're running less than 90 minutes, 60 to 90 minutes, depending on the athlete and the amount of calories they're burning and kind of how fit they are, you don't always have to fuel with with gels or with food. It's for longer runs, typically 60 to 90 plus minutes. If it's been like that, you're fine with water, you're fine with electrolytes. But the caveat is, it's a little bit confusing. If you are running longer than 90 minutes, you've got a two hour run, that doesn't mean you start fueling at 90 minutes. That means you start fueling at 30. Right, right. that make sense? Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The fueling and I know that nutrition be, you know, I'm on a big eater, what's your favorite thing to eat before a longer race? What's your like, do you get up and like, like stuff your face? Or are you like, are you like a simple bowl of oatmeal type of girl? What does that look like? I definitely have a more sensitive stomach. And I do too. I have been through lots of different options. Depends on how long the race is. Like what I eat for a marathon is different than what I eat for an ultra marathon. My typical pre -race breakfast before a marathon. If I get up early enough would be a half a bagel with peanut butter and a banana and then a small bowl of oatmeal. But usually I'll break that up. So I'll get up, make the oatmeal, get that down, probably have half my banana with it. And then on the car ride or on the bus, because a lot of times you're getting up so many hours early, then I'll have the banana. then I may have, usually I'll make like a peanut butter and banana type bagel sandwich or something like that and I'll munch that down. Now if I'm doing an ultra, it'll be a full bagel plus the oatmeal plus the banana. Okay, and with the ultra marathons, are you like stopping, okay, lunchtime. Like, because I feel like it's so long, like, you would have like If I could do lunchtime, I would. I have some - I was just out crewing one of my athletes and I said, what do you want at the 50 mile mark? And he said, can you go get me two bean burritos? And I'm like, I can. If I need two bean burritos, my race day's over. I'm going to have liquid diarrhea down my legs in a couple of months. There's going to be, and it is not going to be pretty or maybe my race is over, but no one's going to want to be behind me. So for me during even an ultra marathon, it's just all about being consistent. So hitting my grams of carbs per hour, my calories per hour. I do a lot of liquid calories. They work really, really well for a lot of people. It gets a little tricky when you're running like a marathon because you don't, you've got just their aid stations and maybe a handheld. So that's why you're going to use more of the gels or the chews that you can stuff in your pocket, things that you can stuff in a race belt. An ultra marathon is different because you have lots of aid stations along the way and you get drop bags. with your name on it, with your stuff in it. And so if I get to an aid station and my crew's not there, I might say my bib number, bib number 254, they see me running, they go get my bib for me, I open it up, I refill all my liquid calories in my bottles, I grab my planned food to eat. I love, love to eat salted potatoes when I run. They're bland, they're loaded with calories and carbs, and they settle well in my stomach. So I might pull out a baggie of potatoes and pull out my, whatever I want for that particular stop. I refill all my bottles, I grab my potatoes and I'm on my way. Do you eat while you're running? Like are you running and eating potatoes? Or are you like walking and eating your potatoes? Both. For those ultras? Yes. So typically rather than staying at AIDS, some people will stop in an AIDS station. Yeah. And they'll maybe sit down or they'll maybe stop and eat. My goal for myself as well as most of my athletes is I want you in and out of that aid station quickly, but that does not mean that you can't stop and eat. I just want them walking because instead of spending 10 minutes in the aid station making no for progress, if you hike the first mile out of the aid station, you're a mile further. Right. you'll hike and eat. So the hike and eat during an ultra marathon is extremely effective. Okay. And it typically works better on your GI. Now, I can run and eat and depending on how well my stomach's feeling or how long the race is, or how fast I'm going, I can of course, I'll run and eat like a gel or a chew or a stroopwafel or you know, something like that. But hiking and eating works great for ultimately. Okay. Salted potatoes, good to know. I would have never thought of that. And a lot of times they have them aid station. I don't know if you Wow, a video or a picture of what an ultra marathon aid station looks like it varies from race to race, but it's a smorgasbord. And you'll have potatoes, quesadillas, pretzels, trail mix, candy, everything you can imagine sports gels. I cannot eat from the smorgasbord of ultra marathon. It's a bit of a joke like, but some people can my husband joke, right? He's a Cadillac like he's an old Ford pickup truck. runs ultras to He can put anything in his body and he just plows on you. And what he calls me is his little Maserati. Like I run very fast, can go very fast and very far with only the best fuel in my body. And it's kind of sad, but it is what it is. I am just, I'm not the athlete and the runner that can eat whatever they want. I've got food sensitivities and food allergies and. It's never my bones or my muscles that are an issue when I run. It's my stomach. so I'm not the runner that can do that. But you know what? I did have, I ran 40 miles this weekend pacing my good friend and I tried something, occasionally something random will sound good and I'll try it for a second and then I'll wait. Maybe I'll maybe take it. So we both took a bowl of tater tots out of an aid station with us. They sounded good. I'm like, it's still in the potato family. They were salty and crispy. And so we both had one little handful of them. Then we ran a mile and we both still felt good. So then we chowed down on tater tots because we were like, my body accepted this. It was really funny. She was running a hundred miles. I was just pacing her. She was like, I really like those. Do we have any more left? And I'm like, we don't. And I said, do you want me to run back and get more? And she's like, no. And then I was like, are you sure? And she said, actually, yeah, let's get more tater tots. So I said, you just keep going. Because I was fresh, know, she's 60 miles and I'm 10 miles in. So I back caught us a giant baggie of tater tots and then ran back to her. And then she just chowed down on tater tots for like the next two hours. my gosh. Okay. I know. So I mean, you're running a lot. Here's one of the biggest struggles I found. I'm a weightlifter as well. So when I lift, I lift heavy. And I found that and I started doing that as I I'm almost 40, I'm getting there. I'm like a birthday away, okay? And so I learned that as you get older, building muscle is really important. So my husband's a personal trainer, that's how we met. We met in the gym nine years ago. And so I have gotten into extreme weightlifting, like weightlifting to fatigue and learning how to really build up hypertrophy and muscle mass. So I found that when now that I'm actually doing training for running, I'm finding I have to work out twice a day. I'll have to put my run in in the morning. And if I need, if I want to do any strength training, I have to do it after I put my little one to bed. Do you cross train? And if you are weightlifting or cross training, what do you feel is the best crossed training for running? Yeah, love this question. Love this subject. So I'm also a personal trainer. I've been a personal trainer since I was 19 and 41. I'm a huge believer in strength training and cross training. When we combine the two and lifting to fatigue and depends on what your goal is, right? Like is your goal to have some, a physique change or is your goal to run stronger, faster, farther and not get injured? And then how do we combine the two? So. When it comes to strength training and endurance running, awesome combination. My main focus for my athletes, I don't take on personal training clients anymore. I just program strength training for my runners. so my main goal with their strength training program is injury prevention, one, and two, athletic performance. And so how are we going to put program both of those in properly in order for you to gain strength through strength training and but also not hinder your running ability. So you can hang on the head with if your goal is performance versus like a total separate goal with a strength training, you're gonna get your run done in the morning or the afternoon and then you'll weight lift, you'll strength train afterwards. So if you can do that combination, that's where you're gonna be able to still get the athletic benefit from your workout and then still strength train. Because what happens if you're hooked into fatigue and you've got a really heavy set and then you go try to do your track workout after, you're probably not going to hit any of your numbers. Yeah, that's thing too. But then you totally just butcher your running workout. Right? Yes. So for me, if our primary focus and our primary goal is run performance, do your run. And then my My main goal, as I say, keep your hard days hard. So if you have a really heavy lift, get your run done, lift at any time during the day. If you cannot lift sometime during that day, say you wait and you lift and you put your little one down and life happens, you fall asleep on the couch, you don't feel like it because we're human and sometimes we say not today. Yeah. The second best time would be to lift that following morning because you're kind of still in that same 24 hour period. So, smoosh your hard lifts together. As far as mobility, band work, injury prevention, core, all of that, I am big on just fitting that in. Whatever you can do to be consistent and get it done every week. So, that stuff you can move around. I'm flexible with my athletes. If they text me and they're like, hey coach, I can't do my upper body lift today. Can I move it to tomorrow? That's not going to affect your ability to run. As far as cross training goes, cross training is a beautiful underutilized tool for endurance athletes and runners. I absolutely love it. have a small triathlon background. So I'm a big fan of biking and swimming for runners on multiple levels. okay. Because you're getting endurance, you're building fitness, but with less impact than running. You're still putting cash in your running bank by swimming. by biking, but you're not getting the full impact of running. Running is hard on our body. It hard on your body. if you aren't careful and you don't strength train and you don't cross train, you're likely going to end up injured and burned out, right? Right. If you can utilize and program cross training properly into your training plan while you're, you know, marathon training, then it's a really fantastic way to gain strength and fitness. without overloading the body the same way that running does. Okay. So would you do like, we have a pool. the swimming, where would I fit that in between the running and then the strength lifting? Yeah. Okay. Let me like take you with what you said, pretending I know a little bit more about your training, like it you through a week. Maybe that would be helpful. And if you've got easy running on a Monday, and then you've got some sort of easy strength training. Let's say you've got mobility and core on a Monday. And then Tuesday, you've got hill repeats, and then a really heavy like powerlifting set that night, right? That was your show like, like brutal. Ugly day, ugly run, ugly hard lifts that your husband programmed for you. And you're just like, I am shaken. I'm dead. So that's your Tuesday. On your Wednesday, depending on your fitness, that would be a really, this is a recovery day, no matter what. If you have the time and the ability, that would be a really amazing day to swim. Okay, got for 30 minutes in the pool. You moved your body, you got mental health, you gained some physical health, and you also got a little more endurance. Right. So a recovery swim would be a fantastic choice on a Wednesday. That would also be a fine day to take a full rest day, go on a walk, go on a hike. If you're not a big swimmer, you could bike, you could elliptical. There's other things that you can do. But I will say on your recovery days, they're not a day to go to the gym and do a high fitness class. That's right. Right. Right. Up, down, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce. You know, that one, if you want to do the high fitness class, do it on your hard day. Do it. Okay. Not on the day. Yeah. Because I think there's a little bit of a myth here. When we do really hard workouts, where we make the most gain is while we recover, because that's when the adaptations take. place. If you are constantly stressing and overloading your body, you're not giving it the full chance to gain and absorb all the fitness that you're working your butt off to create. And then the other thing is hard days, hard, easy days, easy. If you are constantly overloading your body on Friday, I had you had a workout on Tuesday on Friday when I give you another workout or a long run. you may not be able to hit any of those numbers because you overloaded your body all week long. And then I say go on a 12 mile run, you give up at seven, eight miles. You didn't give up because you weren't mentally tough. You didn't give up because you didn't have the ability to do it. You stopped because you weren't efficient with your week and you didn't program it properly for your goal. I think that's the key is when our Training is helter skelter. We just think, we're getting fit, so I'm gonna lift today and then I'm gonna go to a hard class this day and I'm gonna do this that day. Then all of a sudden, when you go to do those running goals, they're really hard and you have to respect what running takes from your body. It's one of the most high impact exercises you can do. It does take a lot out of you. You have to respect that and honor that, which means you honor your body by making sure you're recovering, by making sure you're not always giving 110 % on every single workout. That's not what we're meant to do. We're meant to do that on certain key workouts. Okay. Okay. Good to know. You probably have more questions now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. My last question. I know people are going to ask, I know you were on the race to survive New Zealand. Yeah, you know it. Yes. So I'm sure that was a whole production. What was the most challenging part of that experience for you both? physically and mentally. What overall did you take from that experience in doing that? So Race to Survive, New Zealand, it's hard to even know where to begin because I feel like I could give you hundreds of answers and they would all be true and they would all be accurate. What I was most nervous and what I thought would be the most challenging thing going on to the show, we knew that it was a survival show and that we wouldn't be given much food. They obviously held a lot of it close to the chest because they changed from season, they changed how food was given from season one to season two. But I was sure that was going to be the most difficult part for me was starving while I was running up a mountain with a 30 pound pack or mountain climbing. Like I'm thinking, how am I going to do this with no calories? I get hangry. I'm like the Snickers bar. Like if I'm ever in a bad mood or I'm not nice and I'm on a really just feed me. So I'm thinking, and then as an ultra marathon runner and my sport, We eat the whole time. Like I just talked about, it's part of the element. So I went into the show thinking that the most challenging part physically would be being deprived food. And I honestly, it is wild. The adaptation your body makes, the human body is incredible. After about five days of living off of nothing, you're kind of stripped. You find out who you are as a human being and a couple days of being hungry. I am telling you, As the human race, your true character comes out when you're hungry because it strips you down to your core and you find out real quickly that nothing else really matters besides family, food, God for me. There's not a lot left when you're hungry. But my body and mind did this wild thing and I kind of just accepted it and made peace with it and moved on. So I thought that would be my most challenging thing. And I have this newfound confidence of like, that was hard. and I accepted it and I moved through it and it was fine. The most challenging thing was probably like mom guilt and being away from my children. So, so - Wow. Give you a different, you probably thought I was going to say like doing a particular challenge on Yes. I grew up adventuring. So to me, a 680 foot rappel into a cave wasn't challenging. It was like, my gosh, when do I get to go? I want to get there first. Let me at it, let me at it, let me at it. I, my mentally, the harder it looks, the more excited I get. That's just how I am. I would say being away from my children. I almost said no to the experience because I just thought like, I'm going to be away from my kids for 30 or 40 days. I was gone for over a month. You know, like I've essentially been a stay at home mom for 17 years. Yes, I've had my own business and I, take business trips and I do things, but I'm my own boss. make my own schedule and I write this ability and this flexibility to be home with my kids. And. My husband, in the sweetest, kindest way, said, we're going to be fine. Like, you're with your children all the time. This is 30, 40 days of your life for a life -changing experience. And so I really had to compartmentalize. So that was the biggest challenge was trying to compartmentalize what I had sought out to do, what my goal was, and reconciling, like being away from my family for not just an extended period of time. I mean, people have to take business trips, like real life happened, but I didn't have a phone. I didn't have any way to communicate with them. So we were completely off the grid, which also was a massive blessing and gift and helped really open my mind in ways I didn't expect. But as far as with my loved ones, my husband and my children, that was the most, certainly the most challenging, not knowing what was going on with them and not being able communicate with them. But I remember they all said, like, mom, like, do not feel guilty, do not go home because you miss us. We're gonna be so mad at you. I already accepted this. Like, that's not an option. Like, we're fine. You're gonna be home soon. Like, so in my brain, I was pretty good at like compartmentalizing that because like they were like, I had their support. Yeah. You know. Which is huge. Which is, which is massive. I mean, so I would say the biggest challenge would be that. And then my amazing partner getting injured because And it wasn't a challenge with her. I'm nothing but love. We worked very well as a team, me and Ashley. But just feeling like our journey on the show was cut short because it was something beyond our capacity. And what a life lesson that is. Sometimes it doesn't matter how bad you want something, how hard you work, how mentally tough you are, how hard you train. Sometimes our goals and our dreams and what we had pictured in our mind gets taken from us and there's nothing we can do to change it. And so at that point, we accept it. At that point, it's what we're gonna do with what's been given to us. And so I think that was the most challenging thing for me because in my mind, we were going all the way to the end. It was never about the money for me. I never pictured us winning, which is interesting. I kind of get like these clear pictures, but I pictured us being in the finals. I don't know why I couldn't rap maybe like because as the only all female team we are at just like true physical advantages and I could not see us winning but I knew we were gonna be in the top three from the very beginning and it almost felt like one of my best friends said did it feel like a glitch in the matrix? Because I was so certain that we would get there. And that's what it felt like, you know, like, I just recently had another experience like that where I DNF to race and that I knew I was going to finish. And that's what it feels like. So it was a glitch in my matrix because I saw it. I felt it. Usually I, like you said, I'm such dream really freaking big. I do not, I want to help my children do that. I want to help my athletes do that. I want to help strangers do that. You've got a goal. Let's get after it. It doesn't mean that it's not going to take time and hard work and belief. and failure in the process. I don't really like the word failure, but that's why like the word pivot. It might not quite happen the way that we think that it's going to happen. But so for me, that was the most challenging thing when she got injured was accepting and realizing that our journey was going to have to work. Well, what an experience. Holy crap, man. girl, you have been through a lot. I mean, I can't I mean, think about like when you're 80 and you're telling your children and your grandchildren about all these experiences that you've had, like all these true adventures. mean, these are like adventures, like life adventures. Like it's just incredible. And I cannot tell you how much it means to me that you've been on the podcast. And really, truly, I appreciate all the time you've given me today. And just, I'm just like, you know, like I want to go out and like run 200 miles. Like I just want to like, I want to do something with myself. don't know what, but I'm just like, I'm super inspired and just really honored that you've taken your time to be on the podcast. So thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you saying that. think when I'm old, they're just going to be like crazy grandma, Randy. Crazy grandma eating tater tots, eating tater tots running a hundred miles. Here she goes. You know, we all think about as we age, what kind of legacy will we leave for our family? And I hope that like, them seeing me do these crazy things is them seeing that whatever their crazy is, whether that's in a science lab, whether that's in a business meeting, whatever it is, you can go after big dreams and you can accomplish them. My heart doesn't need to be somebody else's heart, but I hope that my kids and my grandkids see that something that seems almost impossible is possible. And so if that's all that I leave, then I think that's a good thing. absolutely. Frickin Lutely. Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much, Randy, for being on the Meekalove podcast. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. For anyone listening, who's been on the fence about starting their running journey. Remember this. You don't need to be fast or go far to be a runner. You know, I started my running journey over 12 years ago to help me combat emotional spending that was brought on by emotional triggers in my life. Running was something that I gravitated towards to give me something else to do than spend my money. And for a long time, I've always said running has changed my life. And I've gotten messages like, well, Camico, that's really like an extreme thing to say. But it's true. Running not only gave me an outlet, a mental outlet, Running has been there for me during the hardest times in my life. It has given me an opportunity to believe in myself. It's given me something to dedicate myself. It's challenged me in the most unbelievable ways. And I think I'm a better person because of running. Every step you take when you are on a running journey is progress and running. isn't just about fitness. It's not just about losing weight or getting in shape. It's about pushing your limits, finding mental clarity, and discovering what you're truly, truly capable of. So whether if it's your first mile or your 15th, just lace up your shoes. Take that first step and let that running journey unfold. You've got this. Until next time. join the podcast, make sure to subscribe, share this podcast with your friends and leave a review wherever you are listening. Your support helps me reach even more listeners and keeps the conversation going. Until next time, keep feeding your curiosity.